PLEASE NOTE: This is really long and may not be interesting to anyone but me, so feel free to skip over and move on to other posts.
Original Post by random person:
I wish there was a "poll" option on here..
I would love for you to post "Love IT!" if you love your band or "Hate It!" (or hated it if it was removed)....and some of your favorite and least favorite things about the band. If you hate or hated it, please tell me why.
I'm not banded yet, but looking forward to knowing my date thursday. :)
This was followed by a couple of pages of positive responses from people all saying how much they loved their bands and how it had changed their lives. So BitterBander (that's what I'm going to call her) could handle that. She marches in AND posts in the VSG forums (where many failed lap banders end up after the revise to the VSG) and brought over a bunch of people with her.
She comes in with:
Hated it.
There was nothing I liked about it.
I hated:
Never having a sweet spot
Puking in more ways than I knew were possible
Getting stuck
Constant aftercare
Highest regain of all procedures
Esophageal damage forever
Reflux
The port sticking out like a tumor when I got to goal
Expense
Sliming
Embarrassing to puke, slime, and foam in public situations
Port pain
Shall I continue?
I have a sleeve now.
Some other people chimed in with their failures with the band (of course it wasn't any of their faults or even partial responsibility - the band was just evil.)
When I came into the thread, I was replying to someone else's post (not BitterBander):
You said:
I would say with any surgery, if it worked for you, you can't imagine it failing for anyone, and if it didn't work for you, you can't imagine it succeeding for anyone.
And I think this is the smartest thing I've seen on here in a long time.
There are tons of people for whom the band has worked wonders and tons for whom it hasn't. As much as some of the VSG revision folks are saying "this is just my experience" they also seem completely unwilling to believe the band works for anyone.
They keep quoting the 1 in 4 complication numbers but that means 3 in 4 don't have a slip or whatever the stat was.
Also, it's amazing how many people have written things indicating they had major complications with the band for months or years without getting it removed. I'm sorry, but did your doctor not allow you to have it taken out if you hadn't suffered for 6 years or were you just not willing to do that until it was THAT bad?
Personally, if I go 6 months of vomiting everyday or not being able to eat solid foods, this thing is GONE, no questions asked. That's not the way it's supposed to work and you can't really blame the band for hanging on for any number of years unsuccessfully.
Lastly, sure the band may not see as many people reaching "goal" but for many of us, myself included, who've never been able to lose more than 20 lbs on our own, if I could lose 50 and keep it off with a band that would be unequivocally a success in my mind.
And yeah, I know that I obviously know nothing cause I'm 2 weeks out from surgery so I can't speak for the experience of having been there yet. But I look forward to sharing what happens once I am there.
And BitterBander comes back with:
~~There are tons of people for whom the band has worked wonders and tons for whom it hasn't. As much as some of the VSG revision folks are saying "this is just my experience" they also seem completely unwilling to believe the band works for anyone.~~
Complete nonsense. You show me where anyone has claimed or inferred the band does not work for anyone in this thread.
~~They keep quoting the 1 in 4 complication numbers but that means 3 in 4 don't have a slip or whatever the stat was.~~
More nonsense. Nobody claimed 1 in 4 have complications (It's actually a higher number). What WAS claimed is that 1 in 4 have the band removed in the first 5 years. Another 1 in 4 need a 2nd surgery to fix a mechanical problem with the band in the first 5 years. "Complications" are on top of that.
~~Also, it's amazing how many people have written things indicating they had major complications with the band for months or years without getting it removed. I'm sorry, but did your doctor not allow you to have it taken out if you hadn't suffered for 6 years or were you just not willing to do that until it was THAT bad?~~
I was constantly told HERE that I was doing something wrong and not following the rules. That was 3 years ago and in those days life here was much much different from what it is now. I actually believed this in the beginning. I thought I wasn't chewing my protein shakes well enough, that is quite literally what I was told. But that's a different story.
I did think it was me, I thought I was doing something wrong. I was losing weight and I wasn't willing to go back to being fat. When I got to the point that I couldn't eat solids at all with an unfilled band then I revised.
The long term stats on the sleeve just came out 2 years ago. When I was banded I was not willing to get fat again. I did not want malabsorption, and what was left? When the long term stats came out on the sleeve I had surgery within 2 weeks. Can you comprehend going through all that banded nonsense just to have it removed and regain 132#? With time you'll see that you'd give your eye teeth to maintain weight loss.
~~Personally, if I go 6 months of vomiting everyday or not being able to eat solid foods, this thing is GONE, no questions asked. That's not the way it's supposed to work and you can't really blame the band for hanging on for any number of years unsuccessfully.~~
HAHA! We'll see. When you get a taste of thin there is no going back. Put yourself in our shoes, you lose weight and your options (at that time) were remove the band and get fat again or have malabsorption. What would you choose? Remember, you are at goal. Those were my choices in the beginning.
It's easy to say what you would do but you really haven't been in our shoes. Tell me specifics of the head stuff you'll go through in your near future. You can't because you haven't been there and you don't know how YOU will do with head issues until you go through it. This is exactly what you are suggesting to us, we were somehow wrong for not being willing to regain or have a surgery type we didn't want.
~~Lastly, sure the band may not see as many people reaching "goal" but for many of us, myself included, who've never been able to lose more than 20 lbs on our own, if I could lose 50 and keep it off with a band that would be unequivocally a success in my mind.~~
That's you, most of us would like to get down to goal.
~~And yeah, I know that I obviously know nothing cause I'm 2 weeks out from surgery so I can't speak for the experience of having been there yet~~
More true than you realize.
So I respond:
Complete nonsense. You show me where anyone has claimed or inferred the band does not work for anyone in this thread.
Ok, how about this one, from you? I don't have anymore hope for the band. They have actually been trying to make it work for 40 years and so far... nada. :o(
If "so far...nada" doesn't imply that the band doesn't work and never has/never will, then I'm not sure what you were trying to say.
I'm not knocking your VSG, seriously, if my insurance covered it I would probably go with it. However, I have to take what I can get right now to try to improve my quality of life and I find it presumptuous that you think you know me so well that you can't take me at face value when I say that if my quality of life goes down drastically due to the band then I'm getting it removed. Or rather, that you think you know me better than I know myself just because you know the way you think.
Maybe I am not the typical patient here because I actually have a great life, a long term partner, an amazing career, friends, and happiness, but I just feel limited physically by my weight and would like to overcome that. Being fat is not the end of the world for me. I've been fat for the 26 years I've been on this planet and I love my life. Why would I choose to live with constant vomiting and all those other things just to be skinny?
Maybe some people with low self esteem and disordered thought patterns would prefer to be constantly ill and thin but I would take healthy and fat any day. And yes, the 2 are possible to have together despite what most of the world would like you to think. Try reading "Rethinking Thin" by Gina Kolada for some very interesting research on the real correlation between weight and health vs. activity level and health.
The ONLY reason I'm doing this surgery is cause I've been unsuccessful in losing weight through normal means and I feel like weight is holding me back from my passions. Not that I'm unhappy the way I am, I just think I'd be happyER 50-100 lbs lighter. Maybe for those that had a skinny life and gained a lot at some point it's really important to get back to a BMI below 25 but I know I'm not the only one who would be ever grateful for a way to lose 50 lbs without starving myself and exercising to the point of exhaustion which is the only way my body will allow any weight to drop - and it's never been anything more than 20lbs or so before I am defeated and gain it back.
I've been on this site for a month or 2 at the most and I totally GET your issues with the band. And I'm not denying there are downsides to it and that it doesn't work for lots of people. But you give the impression that it is pointless to try, ignore the many successful longterm folks with it, and basically blame the band for anyone who it doesn't work for.
Not everyone who fails with the band is to blame, obviously, it's NOT FOR EVERYONE. But you also can't claim that everyone who fails with the band is completely blameless. There are people who cheat with it, there are people who refuse to exercise, there are people who don't follow the rules, there are people who keep getting more and more fills to try to get the band to "work" rather than abstaining from high calorie drinks, alcohol, and following the basic how-to's of the band - and then you see them here complaining about acid reflux and not being able to get anything down.
I don't have anything against you personally, so please don't take it that way, but I cannot believe a woman as intelligent as you is unable to see how your style of communicating about this issue comes off as malicious and insensitive, not to mention completely dismissive of anyone who does have success with the band.
And she responds:
~~ Ok, how about this one, from you? I don't have anymore hope for the band. They have actually been trying to make it work for 40 years and so far... nada. :o( ~~
Without all the complications? No, I don't have hope for the band. First they had the mesh band, that didn't work. Then they had the non adjustable band, that didn't work. Then they came up with the small adjustable band, that didn't work. Now they have the mega huge adjustable band and lots of people struggle just to get restriction. Top that off with the same slips, erosions, band intolerance, mechanical problems, dilations, etc., how is it better?
Sure, the band works for some people, it works for most folks short term. Long term? Not so much. What do you consider success? Losing weight or keeping it off? Some are so tired of being obese that they will see short term only and focus on just getting it off, not keeping it off.
~~Why would I choose to live with constant vomiting and all those other things just to be skinny? ~~
You didn't read what I wrote. I explained it in detail. My choices were...
Getting fat again not an option.
Malabsorption also not an option
Sleeve there were no long term stats and it was thought it wouldn't do well. Well, it did so I revised.
Let us not forget that MOST people do not have WLS benefits on their insurance. Self pays... many times they cannot afford to have the band removed let alone revise to another surgery type. They spend every dime they have AND they go into debt just getting the band. Removing it is not always an option. You can sit there and preach all you want about what YOU would do if you were in that position but you are not in the same position as everyone.
~~Maybe some people with low self esteem and disordered thought patterns would prefer to be constantly ill and thin but I would take healthy and fat any day. And yes, the 2 are possible to have together despite what most of the world would like you to think. Try reading "Rethinking Thin" by Gina Kolada for some very interesting research on the real correlation between weight and health vs. activity level and health.~~
Maybe try getting to goal and working through your head issues and get back to me.
~~I've been on this site for a month or 2 at the most and I totally GET your issues with the band. And I'm not denying there are downsides to it and that it doesn't work for lots of people. But you give the impression that it is pointless to try, ignore the many successful longterm folks with it, and basically blame the band for anyone who it doesn't work for. ~~
One of my concerns with the band is the attitude of some people. They believe less invasive means safer. Long term it most certainly does not mean safer long term. I can't count the number of times I've read posts where people write... well, if it doesn't work then I'll just revise to another surgery type. Do you know how dangerous that is? Revising from a band.. the only thing to revise to involves a staple line. After being banded your stomach has a lot of scar tissue and adhesions, this means that revising to *anything* triples your risk for leaks, perforations, and bleeding. That increases mortality stats, that's a big deal.
Doesn't it make more sense to get the right long term surgery to begin with?
~~Not everyone who fails with the band is to blame, obviously, it's NOT FOR EVERYONE. But you also can't claim that everyone who fails with the band is completely blameless. There are people who cheat with it, there are people who refuse to exercise, there are people who don't follow the rules, there are people who keep getting more and more fills to try to get the band to "work" rather than abstaining from high calorie drinks, alcohol, and following the basic how-to's of the band - and then you see them here complaining about acid reflux and not being able to get anything down. ~~
You are preaching to the choir. I'm about as "in your face, blunt, look at what you are doing to yourself," as they come. Ask anyone. ;o) I'm at goal, I want everyone to experience what I have. Freedom from fat! It's the most mega huge great fantabulous feeling in the world! These issues happen with all surgery types. Some are not ready for surgery, some are in denial, some have emotional issues on top of an eating disorder, and I think some have the disease worse than others.
~~I don't have anything against you personally, so please don't take it that way, but I cannot believe a woman as intelligent as you is unable to see how your style of communicating about this issue comes off as malicious and insensitive, not to mention completely dismissive of anyone who does have success with the band. ~~
You see it that way but non banded people don't. Interesting, eh? Especially people that can comprehend the good AND the band (long term stats) of banding, those that have been through all this years ago.
Look, you haven't been here long enough to see what seriously rabid people about banding are like. You haven't been here long enough to see when the DSers invade and attempt to take over this very board. They start threads on the band board talking about the laff band, the choke chain... they make fun of newbie post ops laughing and telling them they will never get to goal.
How many non-banded people come over here to battle DSers and fight for the rights of people to get any damn surgery type they want? I am here every single time.
So although I don't have anything against you, you have no freak'en clue what you are talking about. I'm sick to death of the ignorant comment... the band will work if you work the band, or... if you follow the rules you WILL succeed. Bah... total horseshit. I don't recall seeing the 2nd comment by anyone other than newbies. Those who have time with the band have a much better understanding of everything. What about acid reflux? Want an example of that? I have 2 friends that currently have unfilled bands and they can't sleep in a bed, they have to sleep in a chair because they wake up choking on acid. One of my friends has chronic nose bleeds because stomach acid has burned out her sinuses. She has NO money to have the band removed. Another friend... wakes up in the middle of the night unable to breathe because stomach acid is blocking her airway. She describes having to throw herself up against a wall to clear her airway. Again... no money to have the band removed, she too, was self pay.
Another friend... she revised to a sleeve for the same reason. She never had enough restriction to help her with weight loss so she was never too tight. Yet she slept in a chair for a year and finally got the $ together to go to Mexico for a revision surgery. She had her band in the US but couldn't afford US revision prices.
Remember, most do not have WLS benefits, they are on their own. My ins would have covered my band but I didn't want to jump through hoops to have it done locally so I went to MX and besides, I wanted a very specific doctor anyway. But I am more than lucky that I can afford self pay for the band, all the complications, and revision to a sleeve. In this economy most are not as lucky as I am. It's easy peasy for you to sit there on your high horse saying what YOU would do, but you have ins that will pay for complications.
Hopefully with time you will learn more about these issues. Please, keep reading, you need the information.
And then me (looking back at this I cannot believe I was still engaging with her!!)
Do you also go to the RNY boards and tell them that their surgery is not safe and effective because people have died from it? Just wondering.
~~Why would I choose to live with constant vomiting and all those other things just to be skinny? ~~
You didn't read what I wrote. I explained it in detail. My choices were...
Actually I did read what you wrote. I wasn't referring to your choices, I was referring to your opinion that *I* would choose to suffer all those complications and stay thin - which is completely not true. Hence why I asked why *I* would choose to live with constant vomiting, etc. just to be skinny.
Ever think that going to Mexico might have been the reason you had so many complications? I'm not saying it is, just that surgeries performed long distance with the inability to follow up with that surgeon on a regular basis might have a small correlation with complications.
I love how just because you reached your goal weight you are so self riteous to anyone who might not share the same goals as you (even though you did it through being sick and not actually being able to eat solid foods and all the things that are not supposed to be happening while losing with the band - rather than saying f-it to losing weight and trying to get healthy again) - I am happy to not be of the same opinion of someone who would go through all that rather than (dear lord!) be fat again. And yeah, I'll be sure to let you know a few months and years down the road how I'm doing.
And then her:
~~Do you also go to the RNY boards and tell them that their surgery is not safe and effective because people have died from it? Just wondering.~~
I don't have any personal experience with RNY but when people ask... yes, I do tell them I am not pro RNY but not because people have died from it. Because it has a high failure rate, people do not understand they will not malabsorb calories forever but they will malabsorb nutrition forever. I also tell them stomas dilate and then there is nothing to do but revise to another surgery type. Bypass has a higher success rate than banding and it's the best cure for diabetes and reflux.
~~Ever think that going to Mexico might have been the reason you had so many complications? I'm not saying it is, just that surgeries performed long distance with the inability to follow up with that surgeon on a regular basis might have a small correlation with complications.~~
You sure make a lot of silly assumptions. Have you considered educating yourself on topics before spewing forth misinformation? What in the world makes you think I didn't have regular aftercare with my surgeon? I live in Arizona, do you know where Mexico is in relation to Arizona? I'll bet you $1000 I saw my surgeon more regularly than you will see yours. Did YOU ever think it might have just been the band?
~~I love how just because you reached your goal weight you are so self riteous to anyone who might not share the same goals as you (even though you did it through being sick and not actually being able to eat solid foods and all the things that are not supposed to be happening while losing with the band - rather than saying f-it to losing weight and trying to get healthy again) - I am happy to not be of the same opinion of someone who would go through all that rather than (dear lord!) be fat again. And yeah, I'll be sure to let you know a few months and years down the road how I'm doing.~~
You know, you are nothing short of ignorant. There, I wrote it. Sheer ignorance.
I have probably written 100x on this very board that with my issues I could either eat a porterhouse steak or I couldn't swallow my own spit with the same fill level. For you to sit there and whine like a freak'en little baby and make more stupid ass assumptions about my weight loss makes you look ignorant, petty, and jealous.. For you to pull shit out of your ass and then make it sound like you have a clue about what you are talking about makes you look like the ignorant person you are.
I busted my ass to lose weight, I did not do it by puking. Regardless if I could eat a huge meal or not I kept my calories at 600 daily and I did 1-2 hours of hard cardio DAILY. Ask Krista, she will likely remember. I was running 10 miles a day towards the end of my weight loss. How many miles to you haul your butt out and run daily?
Can't help but to see the envy and jealousy you have that someone is at goal and well.. you aren't.
Your stupid arguments do nothing but prove my point time and time again.
So then I write (and yeah I KNOW this is bad but I had to!!)
Lol... Not sure what else to say to this one.
I'm happy that you're happy and I'm looking forward to my own successes with WLS as you've had.
And you're right, I don't run. It's kind of hard given I'm paralyzed below the waist but that's why horseback riding is so rewarding. Really gives that sense of freedom.
And finally her. I let her have the last word because I think it's funny to make her think she's "won":
There are plenty of other exercises you could be doing instead of throwing temper tantrums on line.
Oh, I REALLY wanted to say something back to that, like about her being delusional but I couldn't devote any more energy to it.
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